Do Women Really Want “Fixer-Upper” Heroes?

This is a really interesting topic.  I do think that some women are attracted to the fixer-upper type. 

Part of it is that the hero needs the heroine--in real life, if you feel the man needs you, you think he's less likely to need you.  For insecure types (which I'll admit I am sometimes--I'm speaking from experience here!) this is a big part of it.  

Another part of it is that it reverses gender stereotypes--the woman can feel like she's helping or protecting the man in some way.  It equalizes the relationship a bit.  I think this is why I often like reading about fixer-upper heroes, because they're usually not alpha males (I generally don't like alpha male types). 

And part of it is that perfection just isn't as interesting as a hero with a real background story.  You pointed out the heroes who have returned from combat--a lot of women like reading about heroes.  Similarly, cops and firemen (other hero-type men) in stories often have an issue from their past driving them.  A dead family member, a murder they couldn't solve that's haunting them...

For me personally, I like the fixer uppers because those tend to be stronger stories (though I also sometimes enjoy the marriage of convenience and especially the "stranded with" stories you mentioned too) and because the men are more interesting and less likely to be totally arrogant the way some of the "normal" or "more normal than the average guy" (love your term!) types are.  

which in my mind is different than "fixing"  ..... we are all imperfect but that does not mean we require fixing

I tend to be drawn to heros that have tortured pasts .. be it from a harsh upbringing or by some trauma ..... in these cases the heroine would aid in his emotional healing ... love heals a wounded soul

I equally enjoy reading books where it's the heroine that has the trauma to overcome .... there have been some truly beautiful love stories where the hero has brought the heroine's heart back to life and love .... one of my recent Susan Fox reads was one

I don't know ... maybe it is the same thing .... I'm just not fond of the word "fix" when it comes to the human equation  ..... humans don't require fixing, God made us imperfect for a reason

also, shouldn't your question be "Do READERS Really Want 'Fixer-Upper' Heroes?" ??   ....  I agree that women comprise the majority of romance readers but there is a significant percentage of men who read romance and write it as well  .... why are you singling out only the women? ... are other male points of views on your questions not of value? 

This is such an interesting topic, I'm not sure I have anything really new to add, but...

In real life people carry greater or lesser degrees of emotional baggage and there is a tendency for us to find others that have a similar amount of emotional baggage. That doesn't mean it will necessarily be the same baggage, but it will still be there. So from my point of view as long as there is some balance in the relationship (she's also a 'fixer-upper') I think the device will work well.

But if she is an emotionally, physically, mentally fine person why would she want the fixer-upper? I would start yelling at her to move on don't waste her time and I would then put the book down and not finish it.  

The Presents line has that strong alpha male and often the woman is a weak, younger, submissive female. I have read some books that are well written, but I just really don't like that concept. For my taste there just isn't any balance in the relationship. Many times the male comes across as the "put together, has-all-his-ducks-in-a-row, guy" and she comes across as being very needy. In this case she is the "fixer-upper."

So, it really doesn't matter if it is the guy or the gal, if it is only one of them it doesn't work, but it works if the both can grow by knowing the other.

I read a couple of stories last year that were part of the Special Edition line where the heroines were the ones returning from war wounded emotionally. I think one of them was Dancing in the Moonlight....I don't remember the other one but it was by the author that wrote Winning Dixie (great title).  Those were two that were just as awesome as the military hero books that I love.

I've read a lot of books where the heroine was the one with the emotional issues. For example, heroines who are divorced typically carry a lot of baggage.The hero usually has to overcome his own misgivings and hers too.

Fixer-upper characters give the story a depth and allows us, the reader, to see them grow.

This is a super topic!

I am referring to the kind of men that friends, mothers, and
psychologists warn infatuated women that “He Won’t Change”. The
infatuated woman thinks that after they marry she will tweak the bad
habits out of the man and he will be just right for her.

This is the major problem I have with Presents heros.  They make it seem that this kind of man CAN be changed. 

Because most women are hoping that they could be the one to "tame" that Alpha. Never gonna happen.

       I can understand that the term “fixer-upper” is not the nicest term and it would be kinder to refer to a hero who needs “healing”. However, that would not be precise and it would not be what I meant.         

      “Fixer-upper” refers to men who do need to be fixed: they cannot commit, they are irresponsible, bad fathers, unfaithful, lazy, too critical, belittling, drink too much, selfish, deceitful, immature, angry, defensive, etc.       

Thank you for clarifying “fixer-upper”  ….. the men you are describing here, to me, are NOT heroes  ….  these men are brutes and cowards 

A hero is a man who has an inner integrity …. he’s honourable and loyal … he may behave badly and perhaps with cruelty esp. to the heroine, however he’s not truly cruel at heart ….if the author does his / her job, the how and the why the hero is the way he is or behaves the way he does is explained … otherwise the man is unheroic 

I say that the MEN you describe above are not desirable and have no place being described as heroes  …. they are cads not worthy of the heroine

If a person has a nurturing nature, and I will agree this is a quality most women possess, then the person will be attracted to a hero that has vulnerabilities and may need help becoming a better man … remember heroes are already “good” men at heart, their women will make them “better” men  ...... and if a person has a nurturing nature, they will also be drawn to heroines who may suffer from a tortured past, be it a harsh childhood or some sort of traumatic event

Now on the living vicariously through the hero or heroine … I don’t know about that  … perhaps I’m a different sort of reader …

when I read a character driven book, I of course bring my own personal experiences with me … if the author is gifted, I can often empathize with the characters, both male and female regardless of age, race or circumstance  …. If I do not have the personal experience to draw on to empathize, I can and do sympathize with characters …. or “relate” to …. I don’t think I’ve ever put myself into a character; made believe I’m that character …  this may be the core difference between your reading experience and mine .... as I don't live vicariously through a character, I am free to "relate" to any gender of protangonist ... I'm not limiting my experience 

to further explain "how" I read a book, I'll share again my reading experience as I described it last year of an Emma Darcy Harlequin Presents ......

using The Italian's Stolen Bride as an example, Ms Darcy from the first pages grabbed at my emotions and I felt Luc's anguish, how shattered he was at what his brother was confessing ... when Skye crouched in front of her inquisitive son and pleaded "You must never get in his car. Never go with him anywhere. Do you hear me, Matt?" I felt her cold mother's fear; and I felt pride in Matt, when he glares at Luc and tells him he better not hurt his Mummy .... later when Luc confronted his father, and slammed his fist on his father's desk with such force, I felt Luc's outrage and betrayal .... and when Luc leapt to his feet and declared to Skye "You come first with me!" I felt his passion and anguish and when he declares to her "You're the woman I want above all others", I felt the embrace of his love .... and in the final scenes of the book, when Skye grasps her son's hand and leaps to her feet and declares to Luc's father "I do have family, Mr. Peretti. I have my son." I felt all of her pent up pain and cheered her on ...

When I read, I see the scenes in my head very much as if they were unfolding in front of me... perhaps like a movie .... I can feel the emotions of the characters and often will experience tears or laugh out loud .... but I've never imagined that I am one of the characters   

as you've mentioned here the Presents alpha male in some of your comments above, I think perhaps you may find this discussion from the old eHarlequin community of interest .... The Care and Feeding of the Alpha Male a discussion with Presents author Kate Walker

Whoopsie indeed!!!      ... thanks FF! ... I was just shopping earlier for another Kate's book and got that all confused!   ....  thanks so much!  .... and you wondered why you were March's Member of the Month! 

add a third me too to that, Lady A and Katherine?

Vince, you should probably note that I don't consider myself a romance reader.  No, this doesn't mean that I don't read or like romance as I obviously do read and enjoy romances.  But I do not read specifically for the romance.  Hence, why most of the books I read tend to be paranormal where the world building is important.  I don't want to slip into the characters' roles; I want to read about a different world.  It's also why I enjoy reading books about other cultures. 

Are the Alpha-male “heroes” that some readers don’t like in some Presents novels not really heroes?

the "Alpha male" as presented in a Harlequin Presents is a positive character .... he may behave badly, and sometimes intentionally so .... his behaviour is explained by the author, and we learn that he is a "decent" man and he atones for his bad behaviour ..... alpha's are decisive and like to be in control of their worlds ... some people dislike a person who is sure of themselves or who like to impose their methods on others .... a decisive, in control hero is not a negative one  .... and I find that the alpha heroes tend to have the strongest core, they are the most loyal and have a good heart

“Fixer-upper” refers to men who do need to be fixed: they cannot commit, they are irresponsible, bad fathers, unfaithful, lazy, too critical, belittling, drink too much, selfish, deceitful, immature, angry, defensive, etc.       

the men you are describing above, are negative characters and as such cannot be heroes ... and beyond that they are highly undesirable ...... bad fathers, unfaithful, lazy, selfish, deceitful, belittling ......... you will not find those attributes in a Presents alpha hero ..... nor I suspect in a Harlequin hero ... there is no honour in those attributes ... is there such a thing as a hero without honour?

some heroes may be wary to commit that is usually because of past betrayal .... heroes may be angry and defensive, that usually happens when the heroine threatens his emotional control and he has difficulty understanding this .... a hero may lie to protect those whom he holds dearest, but he does not have a "deceitful" nature ..... a hero may be prepared to do just about anything for his heroine, however he will never compromise his honour 

as far as heroes that drink too much ... I've personally only encountered those in Historicals written quite a few years ago ..... I believe they were called "rakes"  .... unless there were endearing qualities to the man, I don't recall liking him much  ..... heroes may get drunk but that is not normal behaviour, and the behaviour is usually explained

please take a moment to read the article for which I posted the link above .... the discussion of the Alpha hero is very informative and lead by a master of the Presents alphas, Kate Walker .... I fear I will never have adequate words to help you understand what I mean

I think I understand what you are saying

Many women see a guy treating other women (or people) badly, but somehow, once he is with them, think that he would never do that to them

yes, these guys exist and those women exist ..... and the woman may be the heroine before she's met the hero, and she's been hurt and now may be wary of any man's attentions ..... but the man you are describing is he the hero in a romance novel?   ....I sure as heck don't want to read about him .... and I don't think I've encountered such a man as the hero

The premise on which the reformed alpha is built is that he will never lose interest. I personally doubt the truth of this.

hmmm ... this is tough ... I'm not sure I follow ... I think of an alpha as a man who has a very strong sense of loyalty and desire to protect  ... he feels passionately .... I have no trouble believing he can achieve an everlasting love, and therefore a HEA  ....

I believe an alpha hero can have personal growth ... that he can come to recognize his own bad behaviour and feel remorse ... I do believe he can be redeemed 

hmmm, my sentence ...  "hero may lie to protect those whom he holds dearest, but he does not have a "deceitful" nature"  ...... I don't find this to be a contradiction in terms ...... a mother will do just about anything to protect her child, including lie ... this does not make her a deceitful person ... she is protecting her own 

FF, I see you will never embrace the "alpha hero" .... and that's okay ...... my dh happens to be one, and his heart is one of the best I know .... but he's always right!        .. LOL

I know that we are not discussing "perfect" heroes ....... however I thought some might find the following collections of thoughts to be interesting ...... the question of ... "In your opinion, what qualities should a hero always have?"  was posed and more than 100 romance authors have given their answers   ......   A Hero at Heart

OK  - I found my previous comments on this. So I've cut &pasted it.

I'll try to come back and see how the discussion is going - but please don't tell my editor that I've been here.

Taming a man huh?? Now tell me - who in her right mind would want a 'tame' man??? Isn't that the point of romance - that the heroes are often larger than life, sometimes even wild and potentially dangerous but the HEA means that they meet a woman who is not afraid to contend with that wildness in order to show that the guy has another side to him. Many heroes I've read of in romances are essentially still the same person at the end, they just have this loving part of them  that has grown and the need for love met by their heroines. A Love Story can have a story of living and learning and loving - but not end up with that HEA. After all, wasn't that the essence of the book 'Love Story' - where the heroine dies in the end so there nothing happy about that - but it is as it's title says a 'love story'. But  the romance story does tend to centre round the conflict and the resolution of it. Quite often the H&h are already in love but either they won't admit it or they can't admit it or they daren't admit it - or they just plain don't realise it. A love story can, like N Sparks own The Notebook can simply be a story of heartfelt devotion where conflict has very little to do with it. 

The ending of a romance is not with anyone 'tamed' or 'grovelling' ( how I hate that word!) but with the conflict resolved so that the h&H can really see each other for the people they really are and they feel free to be the people they really are with this special person who brings out the very best of them. In fact, the best romance end with both characters becoming the best they can be as a result of love.  The man can still be as Alpha as can be - brave, determined, powerful  etc etc but he is also totally Alpha in his love. That is strong and brave and true as well. As the wonderful Michelle Reid once said:

 The Alpha Man must have an Achilles heel. And our guy’s Achilles heel is love itself. For me, there is nothing more important in a Presents novel than to feel his vulnerability to the heroine grow the deeper he falls in love with her. It might make him tetchy, more arrogant - impossible on occasions, but it also makes him human, more likely to stumble on his pedestal and therefore more reachable and easier to love.  

        Once our Alpha Man accepts he's found the love of his life he's willing to fight to the death for her. When he discovers he is loved by return he is not too proud to say so. In fact he becomes so comfortable with it he's happy to let the whole world know that he's been well and truly hooked. Finding the love of his life completes his Alpha-maleness instead of diminishing it in any way.

Vince I hope you do enjoy that discussion on the Alpha male -  the  Alpha is a much misunderstood - and perhaps sometimes a much mis-written character in romance!

Kate

That epiphany - yes - i'd buyu that! It's what I just said - it'#s what you bring to the reading of the book that colours your view. Your cynicism means you can't believe, no matter how well the author writes it or how much evidence there is of a real change of heart

It's like they say about god - or ghosts! - for those who believe no proof is necessary  -  for those who don;t believe no proof is possible.

But I'll acknowledge that there are some books where the author has failed to convince me that the  hero (or it can just as well be the hero) doesn;t have enough motivatin for their behaviour at the start and so I'll never believe, no matter how much going donw on bended knees and declaring love, that it will ever work out. It has to be convincing within the terms of the novel. And it has to convince the individual reader. And we all read things differently depending on what our lives make us bring to the reading.

But to be honest, FF  - if I've ever gone any way towards convincing you with any of my heroes and to make you say they are some of the better ones, then I consider that  a great compliment because I know how hard you are to please.

 Kate

Me? Hard to please?  Perish the thought!