Christian reading problems

I read one of the LI books a while ago and this very thing drove me insane!!!  Everytime I flipped a page, the lead character was praying for everything under the sun.  I, too, am very private when it comes to prayers b/c I don't feel that it's anyone else's business.  It's rare that I'll post one even here unless it't an extreme situation like with Dustin.  Unfortunately, this has made me not want to read this line b/c the few books I've read seem to be along the same line.  Unless someone (I trust and know they read alone the same lines that I do) blogs an extremely good recommendation about a LI book, I tend to steer clear of the line completely.  I don't have anything against the God content but like you, feel that it's the way the author has presented it.  I will probably give another one a try in the future but I might have to take some sneak peeks of it in the store to determine how it's written!!!

I understand too. There are a lot of people in my church who pray over everything and I can't fully join them. To me prayer is mostly private although there are some exceptions. Each person is different and that is what makes up for differences in everything. So why would religion and prayer be different hence the many reigious choices. I have enjoyed the Steeple Hill books I've read it doesn't mean that what's in a book is the way I would do it. Glad you've worked out what's best for you. Be honest with yourself and if people are true Christians they should be able to take positive criticism. I made a comment about all the group prayers and sudden breaking into prayer that for most I don't think it would happen but then it is a fiction book.  I know what I believe and am okay with the way others believe. I'm not okay when it is shoved down my throat and told I should believe a certain way. Good thought provoking post Sadbhb.

Angel, me too!  Something about the Catholic upbringing I guess... the automatic responses to certain phrases. 
   Of course I've been watching the Stars Wars films since they were first released, so it's not something that jumps out at me anymore... just one of under-the-wire, yep-I-still-think-about-it ways... subconcious! that's the word that I meant.  *sigh* 

  Sadhbh, you have every right to the way that you feel, and yes, I read a Steeple Hills suspense story that had my teeth clenching... way too much proselytizing for me... not that I think that it's a deliberate attempt on the author's part ~ at least I hope it wouldn't be ~ to impress people with, but way too public for my tastes.
  Yes I go to mass every week and I am a 'practicing' Catholic, but sometimes I think that the North American religious ~ Christians for the most part ~ tend to go way overboard with emphasis on visible faith. 
  This next part may sound a lot off-topic, but It's very much the same thing ~ IMHO.  I'm going back to the anime series released here in NA a few years ago, Sailor Moon, and the absolute bastardization of said series when it was translated.  When I first started watching it with my daughters, and assorted baby-sitting kids, I loved it.  Then I got a taste of the Japanese version and became thoroughly disgusted with what the NA producers ~ and censors ~ did to it.  In fact, as easy-going as I am about most things ~ what they did was reprehensible.  North Americans ~ on whole... I'm talking about "society" as opposed to individuals here ~ have become prudish, judgemental and over-bearing in their "knowledge of what is right and proper" and it's really becoming ~ or rather probably established ~ a strong dislike of the 'fundamentalist' approach that is becoming too prevalent. 

  So, in a very roundabout way, I say "Right on!" and that there's no need to be defensive about how you feel with elements of the SH line... prayer, for me, is, for the most part, a very private endeavour... I don't need to show myself as being a prayerful, faithful Christian... I am what I am and I strive to do my best... most of the time.  I really don't think anyone else has the right to say how I should worship, or show my faith. 

And I sincerely hope that I haven't gone WAY overboard... although I'm afraid that I have.  If so, my apologies... but it's very good to vent! 

American society today (in my opinion) seems to be going the way of the Victorians.  Too many people trying to tell us what is appropriate behavior, dress, reading material, etc.  

I've always been of the opinion that your beliefs are your own.  If you want to believe in God, Allah, Mother Earth, whomever, it's your business, just don't tell me who I should believe in.  Same with reading material.  If you believe the Harry Potter books are evil, that's fine.  But don't tell me I and my children can't read tem, or that my public library shouldn't carry them.  I always told my kids they could read what they wanted to - I never censored it.  

I like some inspirational fiction - Beverly Lewis's Amish books are great.  I tried a SHLI book once and couldn't even finish it.  I felt as though the faith was being shoved down my throat.  So, I avoid those and stick with the other lines....

Sadhbh, you are going to be surprised, along with everyone else, when I tell you that I "became a Christian" or was "born again" because of the first Star Wars movie.  God had been working on me for over a year and when I saw that movie, everything crystalized for me.  Although I do not consider myself charsmatic, most of the religious experiences since then have been in the charsmatic tradition.  Therefore, I have no problem with praying out loud in public (indeed, I had to learn to do so).  However, I don't read the Love Inspired line because I've found those books too moralizing, too much dependent on the power of prayer, etc.  I don't feel that diminishes my faith.  I also have trouble with some of the gratutitous sex in the racier lines and have said so in my blogs.  I have to agree with the rest of you on another thing too.  Politically, I've always considered myself a moderate (liberal on some things, conservative on others) but, American society has moved so far to the right now that I find I'm a blooming liberal!  As my trip to France is coming up in another month, I'm sure I will get to see the other side of the coin!  I was very happy to read everyone else's blogs on this and now I know that I have company on many of my feelings.  Thanks, Trudy

Yep, I know that Catholics are Christians... and they can often be the worst moralizers around.  I guess what I was *trying* to say was that my objection to the "preaching" and "fundamentalists" ~ of any religion or beliefs ~ is that they feel that they have all the right answers, they know how everyone is supposed to behave and they don't have any problem trying to ram their beliefs down anyone's throats.  Personally I believe that we, as Christians, are supposed to live our beliefs and that is the way that Christ's love will spread.  Frankly I don't see how someone trying to force me to follow their ideas of "right" is in any way, shape or form, truly Christian.  After all, Jesus never tried force, he asked, he invited, but he never told anyone that they had to believe... at least that's my understanding.

 And once again, I got on the rails and couldn't get off. 

Sadhbh... wow! Talk about talking about, eh?  LOL 

What a great blog entry! I rarely read the LI books. I received a free LI book in the mail--so, I had to try it.

I really liked the writer--for the most part and if she had left out the parts of the book that made it a LI book I would read more, but... It was the moralizing bits and the constant prayers, and quoting of scripture that just turned me off. (And yes, I'm the mother of a seminarian, so, we are somewhat familiar with church. LOL)

When I blogged the book I tried to convey that I liked the basic 'bones' of the story, but it was some of the fleshing out that bothered me. I could recommend it to folks that are comfortable with the SH LI imprint, but that I would not be able to recommend it to anyone uncomfortable with a 'preachy' book. Too bad, because I really liked some aspects of this author's voice. Would I chose to read anything else by her? No, not unless it was written for some other imprint (an imprint that did not have a christian bent).

didn't expect this, Sadhbh!  LOL  I'm glad you were able to finish you book and go on from there.  It's interesting, isn't it?  What turns us on and turns us off in the books/films that we read/see.  It's nice to be able to have a free discussion like this and know that we all respect the others' opinions.  This is a great discussion Sadhbh!

Sadhbh, nothing you've said so far has offended me, so I wouldn't worry about it -- I think we're too much alike to be offended by what the other one says.   

I just know what you mean about everything being magnified when you're exhausted. . .  {{BIG HUG}}

About the backlog contest. . . 

Kalyko, you're absolutely right -- Jesus "stands at the door and knocks" 

Jo, I don't usually even think about mentioning the religious parts.  I guess it's because they don't stand out in my mind as needing to be mentioned.

"Preaching to God". . . hmmmm, you're right.  A lot of people do it in real life, too. 

Hockey Jock, sorry, but I'm not going to comment at all about what you said except to say there will be wars and rumors of wars as long as there are humans on the earth -- because NO ONE is perfect!

Anita Mae, I buy all the LI and LIS books every month.  I'm already looking forward to seeing yours in print -- just let us know when. . . 

I-was-raised-Baptist.I've-read-the-Steeple-Hill

line-and-it-doesn't-bother-me-at-all.I-have-to

point-out-that-I-do-have-Catholic-relatives.

If-a-person-was-brought-up-with-a-certain

method-of-worship,a-certain-type-of-music

that-is-considered-religious,they-have-tunnel

vision.They-believe-that-what-they-believe

is-the-correct-way-and-every-other-way-is

pushy-or-devient.My-Catholic-cousins-feel

shocked-or-at-least-surprised-when-someone

sings-loudly.If-someone-says-'Amen'-to-comment

during-a-sermon-they-look-around-to-see

who-said-it-as-if-a-major-crime-has-occured.

People-who-were-brought-up-to-express

their-faith-wonder-why-the-others-are-so

quiet.Protestants-say-their-own-prayers

in-private-as-well-as-public-worship-instead

of-a-memorized-prayer-dictated-by-a-missel

or-rosary.Its-a-way-of-life,not-just-a-religion.

No-offense-is-intended.They-are-simply

expressing-the-story-from-the-contents-of

their-heart.If-two-people-are-to-share-a-life

together,they-have-to-have-the-same-belief.

That-is-what-the-romance-is-supposed-to-be

geared-toward.Each-of-the-lines-is-geared

towards-people-who-have-a-belief-in-a-particular

lifestyle.The-more-erotic-lines-are-showing

characters-who-focus-more-on-sex-and/or

profanity.

I-enjoyed-the-books-from-Rosewood,Texas.

One-book,'Child-of-Mine',was-one-that-could

have-been-a-movie-of-the-week.The-characters

went-to-church-because-that-is-the-what-people

in-the-'Bible_Belt'-region-of-the-country-do.

The-typical-southern-USA-is-church-going.

So,that-is-my-opinion.We-are-all-free-to-read

any-line-we-wish.

I-don't-like-reading-the-extreme-erotic-lines-with

cursing-and-disrespect-because-I-wouldn't

care-to-be-in-such-a-relationship.

Aurelene

This has been a great discussion!  I have enjoyed reading everyone else's viewpoints on the LI line.  And I agree with most of the viewpoints expressed.  I always tell people that I'm a Christian first, a Methodist second.  Although my background is in expressing myself in worship, I now attend a church where that is not done much.  It really doesn't matter, God knows what is in your heart whether you express it publically or not.  As long as people respect others' views on religion, that is the most important thing.  Even so, I find the LI line too moralizing for me although I agree with their morals.  The characters have seemed to be one-dimensional in many cases.  By the same token, I don't read Spice and very rarely read Blaze because of the gratutitous sex and the characters willingness to fall into bed with any one.  Presents can be bad too but it can also be very good.  Like others, I will skip the sex if it's too much for my tastes.  Thanks for starting this blog!  Trudy

I was raised Episcopalian, which is an odd mix of Catholicism and Protestantism and which, for the most part, is a denomination well-suited to me.  It doesn't mean it is the end all to end all or right for everyone, but it suits me intellectually and spiritually.  Prayers are private. Public prayers are often from a prayer book with open space left for individual petitions, aloud or silently.  I suppose one could accuse memorized prayers as not being real or not spontaneous but I find that for me, it opens my heart sort of like meditation.  The Book of Common Prayer is very poetic (also scriptural) and as you all know how I respond to books, well, I think you can see it is a good match for me.  Personally, though I have been heavily involved in social justice issues at times in my life,  I have a large contemplative streak....  My faith is deep but I am not a perfect person who lives by what someone else says is "Christian".  I have a huge rebellious streak, not really against God, but against things that limit the mystery of God or somehow try to make themselves God or judge others.  In my church we have homilies, not preaching at us sermons but a form where the minister takes the Scriptural passages and comments on them for reflection kind of like book reviews.  Once again...having seen how I react to books, you can see why this suits me even if it does not suit others.  

That being said, I am growing more and more fond of Steeple Hill, especially the ones where the authors are not preaching at me but are showing their characters turning their hearts to God and listening.  I do not like straight romance books where the hero/heroine preaches at the other and poof, they are in love.  Same with faith I guess.  I know..St. Paul had a sort of quick dramatic conversion..but even so..it was God, not some human being forcing him.  It is hard to explain but I also like suspense about extremist religious groups because it often details the abuses of when humans get involved in forcing others.  I also like a lot of books that most Christians would not like but which for me are deeply spiritual and show spirituality in the most unexpected places.  I also frind non-Christian writers sometimes also are deeply spiritual and who speak to me from their faith to my faith.

Reading is private experience.  Prayer, even public prayers, for me are private.  Nevertheless, I really enjoy writing about books in a public way most of the time.  When I read a Steeple Hill, I try to bring my own faith into my reading privately, quietly in a kind of listening way.  The shocking thing for me, is that, knowing that I am of a different faith background than many of the readers on the Steeple Hill forums, I really love reviewing the Steeple Hill books because,  by entering into the imagination of the book, I can talk about faith in a way that I sometimes can't when I talk about religion.  When I talk about my Steeple Hill reads, I can write in such a way that (I hope) talks about faith and reading from that quiet place that listens.

Anyhow, my irritation at that part of those books comes across in my
ratings, so why shouldn't your irritation of the religious parts of
these books come across in the ratings. You just need to state that
that's where your problem was (as I do).

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree -- if you know something bothers you, don't read it -- and if you do read it, then don't penalize a writer for having written it, because you are not the audience.

If you choose to read Blaze or a LI, or whatever, you should have full expectation of what you will find in that book. Why negatively rate a book that has explicit sex or other content which the line requires (and which the audience and editors of that line enjoy and ask for?) If you choose to read it, it seems to me it has to be reviewed openly and fairly -- knocking a rating lower because you don't like explicit sex, religion, etc isn't fair play. I don't like explicit violence -- so I don't read books with explicit violence -- but I wouldn't read one, and then go say "this book had too much explicit violence..." :/ and negatively review it...

I don't read Christian romance, because it's not something I would enjoy -- so why would I read it, knowing evangelism would rankle me, and then say I didn't like a book because it had a lot of Christian content? I have to admit, I don't get it.

Sadhbh, I think if you enjoy Chistian books, then you can fairly review the ones that are done well, in your opinion, versus the ones that aren't. So, if you read a majority of them and like them, and maybe one or two set you off, then it could be something in how the author handled the execution, and that's fair. However, if all evangelical content would annoy you, period, then you aren't the audience for that book, it's that simple.

OTOH, if what you are asking is why doesn't the Christian fiction represent a wider swath of belief -- so, do they have Catholics, Methodists, Baptists, Protestants, Unitarians, etc -- and if not, is what you're asking really why isn't there more variety of approach in the books? Do they all show faith coming across in the same way, then that's a different kettle of fish... (So, for instance, a Blaze is *required* to have explicit sex -- but a Christian romance is not necessarily required to be evangelical? It could portray other ways of practicing faith??)

And here's what's probably a stupid question, but it shows how far out of the religious fiction market I am: how come we only have Christian fiction? Is there Jewish fiction or fiction that represents other faiths? Do these exist?

Sam

I don't expect anyone to like all the books I read nor would I expect to like all the books someone else reads. I respect the right of anyone to like or dislike a book and Sadhbh, if those issues bother you, then it is totally fair of you to say so. 

I completely agree Debbie!

And you bring up great questions and points Sam!

Everyone is entitled to her/his opinion.  If one is not wild about LI books, then maybe s/he shouldn't read them?  I don't know what the answers are for everyone and I try not to react as if I do.  Me own views are me own -- no one else is expected to feel as I do.  As a person, I may think that what you feel is the craziest thing in the world ~~ but I will be the first Bloke in line defending your right to your opinion! Personally, I really dig the Steeple Hill books.  Reading them is like having a glass of wine.  Some Christians feel it's ok, other Christians don't.  And my views of pacifism (which, BTW, my church movement teaches) don't mean whether or not I "like" so-and-so because his/her view is different than mine.  I've been in wars.  I've defended the United States.  Even as a kid, I volunteered (also urged by the church movement) for "patriotic" stuff.

I want to make clear that in my reviews that I don't knock the book (with the exception of one) down because of the gratitous sex, violence or other things I didn't agree with.  Neither would I knock a book down because of its moralizing.  In fact, during last year's blog, two of them upset me so much but the writing was so good that I gave the books an A (I use a grading system like in school).  I would do the same for any LI or Steeple Hill books that I might review.  I think that most people who are reviewing books for this contest, would be just as impartial as I am (at least I hope so).

I find it quite interesting that so many people have such strong views on religion. 

Julz, It's not so much people "preaching" to God per se, as people trying to tell God how to run the universe and what He should be doing in their lives.  It just comes across as sounding like preaching.  Another saying I've heard often is "He was preaching to the choir."  meaning he was saying things that everyone already knew.

Paisley, I was raised Baptist and still am.  I've heard of many groups who believe and strongly preach that they're the only ones who will get to heaven -- even some Baptist churches come across that way.  Our pastor is definitely not like that.  He has said on more than one occasion that there are going to be lots of Baptists who will be surprised to find themselves spending eternity someplace other than Heaven, while at the same time there will be others who are going to be surprised to see many people from other religions in Heaven, too. 

Ah, Sam, but I am the audience, and that is exactly why I read very, very few Blaze books.  I am also very careful to state that it's me who has the problem with those books and not the author's problem for writing them.  I guess I should have worded it a little differently.  I didn't mean if it has hot & heavy sex I'm going to rate it lower, I meant that if I feel the sex in the book is so off the wall as to be totally impossible to believe (or to physically do) -- that's when it will get a lower rating.  I love a well written sex scene as much as the next person, it's when the H & h are in bed together by page 3 and don't resurface till the book ends that gets me.  I'm sorry, but people just don't live that way.  It's not realistic, and for me to enjoy a book it has to be realistic.  So it's not just the sex I rate, but the whole book.  If the h is really stupid and petty and wussy, she'll get a lower rating whether she sleeps with the H or not. 

It's termed "Christian" fiction, but it could probably more correctly be termed "religious" fiction.  I believe it is supposed to be more or less generic so the reader can put whatever religion they want into the story.  I've read several that have had Jewish tones to them, and I had no problem at all reading them.  It's basically the same as some stories having Russian heros or Italian heroines, or whatever. 

Well, gotta hit the sack.  See you all in about 2 weeks. . . 

I didn't mean if it has hot & heavy sex I'm going to rate it lower,
I meant that if I feel the sex in the book is so off the wall as to be
totally impossible to believe (or to physically do) -- that's
when it will get a lower rating. I love a well written sex scene as
much as the next person, it's when the H & h are in bed together by
page 3 and don't resurface till the book ends that gets me.

Thanks for the clarification, though I have read a lot of Blaze and can't remember one that has that set-up -- but I guess there must have been one that I missed. *G* I guess I have split feelings here, too -- I believe that romance is in some part fantasy -- we read it to escape and have fun, and so it can be off the wall. I mean, it's the same with the secret babies and powerful princes of other lines. In Blaze, there are a lot of sexual details (all kinds of little icky details that go along with "real" sex) that we don't include, and frankly that's why we don't include bathroom details in books either. :) I don't know if we can use real life as a basis for judging all fiction -- I mean, I watch Desperate Housewives, and I always think, really, how many murderers can you have in one suburban neighborhood? LOL But, it's still a fun story. I just go along for the ride (and, on DH, they had a fun Christian subplot last night, as Lynette searches for answers and tries to find her faith.). I might be interested in reading a Christian fiction romance as long as I felt the characters were the focus, and that I wasn't, as a reader, being preached to...maybe that's the difference.

Anyway, thanks for a good discussion Sadhbh.

Sam

Hey everybody, this is a great discussion.  I laughed, I cried (okay, maybe not quite), and it certainly made me think.

Having read a lot of Blaze and a fair amount of SHLI, I can tell you I've hit the cringe factor with both (not out-and-out offended, but cringing anyway).  Here's what it comes down to for me:

If a bad writer tries to write sex, it's gonna be bad.  When a good writer writes sex, whoa boy, that's good.  Religion is much the same.  Who we are as spiritual beings is an intimate, personal thing (a lot like sex!) and it has to be handled with a deft hand.  I, too, get very turned off when either one of those is done poorly.  And perhaps that's really where the rating issue comes in.

Because if somebody can take something intimately personal and write about it in such a way that makes my soul sing, I'm going to be impressed.  But if they just mutilate it and squash it into some square-cut writing guidelines, I'm going to be turned off.

For me, it's not about what you write, but how you write it.  Love, sex, and our eternal souls are all heavy issues, and when we dare to approach them, we tread on sacred ground.  Such a journey should be undertaken in reverence.  Not lightly, not with a heavy hand, and Lord help us, not by shoving anything down anyone's throat.

OliviaWayne wrote: "For me, it's not about what you write, but how you write it." 

And, for me, that's it in a nutshell!  Perfect... and said in so many fewer words than I used... as usual.