Please help me out. My wife loves Dr. House. All her friends love Dr. House. What sense does this make?
Dr. House is an arrogant, irresponsible, manipulative, vindictive, rude, and insensitive person who is always broke, completely unable to commit to or maintain a mature sustained relationship with a woman. Further, he is a drug addict and handicapped (probably the same leg problem I have so I can talk about it). He drives a motorcycle as his only vehicle.
According to romance hero standards not much of the above is hero material. He is a doctor and he has a motorcycle and he is a big fan of soap operas. Other than that, what in the world is the attraction? Do romances fans like Dr. House or is it all those women who don’t read romances that make Dr. House so popular?
BTW, I love the TV show but I sure would not want my sister to date Dr. House.
Thanks,
Vince
“Romances are the emotional vitamins of the soul.” Vince
I love House. But would I
I love House. But would I want to have a HEA and raise babies with him? Nope. Is it a sex thing... I don't think so, he sounds like a selfish lover.
What I do like about him is that he's so confident and he's always right, he gets to the root of the medical mysteries in an almost magical pre-sensor way. He's got some of the characteristics of an alpha.
Another thing about House.... is that he has CHEMISTRY with every other character on the show, he has a unique dynamic with each person. House/Wilson (hilarious), House/Cuddy, House/Cameron (my fav romantic pair), House/Foreman, House/Stacy, House/Chase.
Why...
Why does he have to meet romance hero standards? I love the show but I don't see him as being a romantic hero by any means. He's almost like the anti-romance hero to some degree!
The D2K Paranormal Junkies 2008 Challenge Blo
I have no idea of the attraction.
I have watched the show once or twice but couldn't tell you what night it is on.
I picture him as the goofy dad in the Stuart Little movies and can't get past that.
Maybe the attraction for women is the need to 'fix' him? We always think we can save a man from himself and understand him better than anyone else can. (Generalizations, but you must admit there is some truth in there.)
Angel
"I can fix a bad page, but I can't fix a blank one." Nora Roberts
www.angelinabarbin.blogspot.com
I think...
part of the attraction is his vulnerability . He is arrogant, selfish and all the stuff you listed....but you know why. it is because he is is insecure, and hurting.
Terri
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Not al women do. I agree
Not al women do. I agree with Debiw--- I am a woman but I don't judge men or what I like to read/watch according to the romance genre and not according to whether I would want to have a romance with the men. love the men characters on MI-5 but I would never want to have anything to do with them romantically.
AKA Merri
Family Challenge Team: The Spine Breakers with my dh Glenn AKA Phaedrus
The man in the show and the
The man in the show and the show are a turn off for me. Ok, so I'm not a big TV fan, but I would much rather read a book than watch this show.
Nancy
sheandeen@gmail.com
George Clooney I Understand but House?
Hi All:
Thanks for your posts. I can fully understand why women would not like House -- what I don’t understand is why so many do like him. George Clooney I understand. House I don’t.
Thanks,
Vince
“Romances are the emotional vitamins of the soul.” Vince
Hmmm ... are you confusing the actor with the character?
George Clooney is an actor ... and in honesty I'm not attracted to him as a man though he is gorgeous ..... however, his character in ER, is another matter ... as Dr. Ross, he was sexy, but not necessarily for his appearance alone but for the qualities of the character in combination ... gorgeous + self-assurance as a doctor must have + compassion + gorgeous :D .... he's like a Harlequin Romance hero which has mass appeal
Dr. House is a character .... as a character he's appealing, though not necessarily sexy .... alpha, yes ... arrogant, often, though not usually cruel ... and we get glimpses of his vulnerability ... he's become a cynic .... so appealing yes ..... Hugh Lawry the actor, if you see him outside of his roles, is incredibly sexy, in my opinion ... so combining Hugh Lawry the man with Dr. House the character, we have a combination that is appealing ..... the sexy Hugh Lawry with the alpha doctor ... :D .... he's like a Harlequin Presents hero which is more an acquired taste
because I happen to love alpha heroes (my dh is one), I'd chose Dr. House over Dr. Ross .... so I think it's a matter of do you prefer a Harlequin Presents alpha hero over a Harlequin Romance beta hero ?
Vince, who do you relate to more? .. the Harlequin Presents hero or the Harlequin Romance hero? .... perhaps, therein lies your answer
~~ KatherineT ~~ I'm a Harlequin Addict, and I'm proud of it!
~~ Quiet Canadians ~ 2008 Book Challenge Blog
Vince....
why the assumption that women can only love a character who meets the standards of a romance hero? I love Dr. House myself but I in no way equate that to him being a romance hero. Instead, it is because he is an incredibly well written character on an excellent television show that is not in any way a romance. It's the same thing as my last summer's marathon of Babylon 5~ there are characters like Londo and Gkar that I dearly love but they are certainly not romantic figures! Each character has a role to perform in order to make the show a hit. Without House's arrogant and insensitive attitude, the show wouldn't have the tension it does nor would the other characters get their chance to shine in contrast. It has nothing to do with him being a romance hero, however.
And I think Katherine T has a good point about comparing an actor to their roles so perhaps that is some of the issue? (And just as a sidenote... ugh on George Clooney! I avoid any movie he's in!) Maybe the women you are referring to find the ACTOR sexy rather than the CHARACTER he portrays on the show?
I guess my real question is why the assumption that women and romance readers all fall into one set group of easily definable categories? It almost seems as if you are making the assumption that a woman can only like male characters she would date. If this is the case, I'm truly in trouble since I'm also a Stephen King fan!
The D2K Paranormal Junkies 2008 Challenge Blo
The Questions is Answered.
Hi KatherineT:
Your comment: “Hugh Lawry the actor, if you see him outside of his roles, is incredibly sexy, in my opinion” … answers the question. I don’t see the actor, Hugh Lawry, as being sexy but then my idea of sexy is Sophia Loren. If women consider Hugh Lawry sexy, (or a lot a women), then everything makes sense.
On your question:
Vince, who do you relate to more? .. the Harlequin Presents hero or the Harlequin Romance hero? .... perhaps, therein lies your answer.
There is no question for me. I like the HR hero. I really liked Donna Alward’s hero in “The Soldier's Homecoming”. I’d like to be him. I like his sense of honor and duty. I like a hero, (who because he has worked hard and has a good job) provides a good home for a widow and her children – especially a worthy woman who is having trouble keeping things together. I think that is being a hero.
I don’t think being abusive towards women just because you are rich and can get away with it makes much of a hero. I don’t look to Presents for heroes. The best heroes I’ve read are all the Maureen Child Marine heroes. They have honor, they are brave, and they do the right thing. They are also very protective of women and children. Now, I’m not too sure what this tells me about House. I like House. House and Numbers are my two favorite TV shows. I just find it hard to understand why he is so popular with so many women. If the man is sexy, then there is no mystery.
Thanks,
Vince
“Romances are the emotional vitamins of the soul.” Vince
Knight in shining armour .....
ah, so you prefer your heroes to rescue the heroines? ... the Knight in shining armour scenerio ....
I haven't read many heroes in a Presents that are as you describe above .... maybe it's because I've lived all my life in a community that is predominately European in culture, be it Italian, Portuguese, Greek, Polish, Hungarian etc .... and I view dominant behaviour differently than you ... the Presents hero's behaviour is not new to me on a personal level .... what is new, is that they are men of the world who have attained, usually through hard work, great wealth and positions of power in the world ... they are powerful men ... I've found that they can be ruthless ... but I have rarely found a Presents hero to be abusive ... I have found that the older Presents reflect the time in which they were written, with the male / female roles a reflection of that .... as I've mentioned in previous discusions, in order to be a "hero" one must have honour and a core of goodness .... Presents heroes have this .... but that's a debate we've already had LOL
As far as Dr. House is concerned ... I've definitely seen his protective instincts ... when his ex-fiancee was part of the story line, he was very protective of her and wanted her back ....he's protective of Cuddy and Cameron as well .... yes, House is ruthless and can manipulate to get what he wants ... but don't all alphas manipulate the worlds around them? ... it's part of the alpha .. the leader ... he best protects those he cares for by controlling the world around them ... and Dr. House is not an evil character ... he may be human in his pain both physically and emotionally, but he's not evil ... and from a medical point of view, I don't view him as a drug addict ... I don't know if you've ever endured the level of pain that House endures on a daily basis, if you did I doubt you'd view his self medicating habits as an addiction ... ah, but then as Debbie mentioned "House" the television show is a drama not a romance ... and the character Dr. House is the dramatic lead not a romantic lead ..
perhaps the popularity with women that you perceive is actually of the show itself .. many women are drawn to the medical dramas period .... maybe it's part of our inherent nurturing tendency .. but we like to fix the booboos ... so this show holds appeal in general to women ...
~~ KatherineT ~~ I'm a Harlequin Addict, and I'm proud of it!
~~ Quiet Canadians ~ 2008 Book Challenge Blog
All women
Vince, I think it's problematic to say all women this or that. It leads to a generalization about things. Of course, the human mind tries to understand things by associating incidents and connecting them. Even research tries to see patterns in things but big generalizations are problematic. What kind of methodology are you using for your research? Are you focusing on romance texts or romance readers? How are you going to deal with romances/readers that diverge from your theories? It is not a question hat you need to answer to me or here but more for yourself. These are the kinds of questions I was asked while writing my thesis about dream poetry as a genre so I am not picking on you. I ask these questions of myself a lot.
I don't have decades of reading romance behind me but it seems to me that often romance has a theme of breaking stereotypes. The h/H at some point look beyond themselves and their own assumptions and see the other person as they are. That seems to be the difference between infatuation and true love. Even when there is a lot of sexual attraction or sex, a romance seems more about the heart and love. Often it is about that one man or that one woman who is right for the other. Romance seems a lot about breaking stereotypes. Even when there is a formulaic element in terms of form, the meaning still leads to this issue often.
So to get back to the House issue, maybe it has nothing to do with gender or romance or even heroes?
AKA Merri
Family Challenge Team: The Spine Breakers with my dh Glenn AKA Phaedrus
Biologically, men are expendable; women are not
Hi KatherineT:
You asked:
“ah, so you prefer your heroes to rescue the heroines? ... the Knight in shining armour scenario .”
Of course! Isn’t that what men are for? (from a natural selection POV?) Biologically men are expendable; women are not. (Look what happened after WWI) A tribe could lose 90% of its men in battle and the remaining 10% could father a repopulation in a few years (though they would be children for a while). If the tribe lost 90% of its women, the tribe is finished. That’s why every society must protect its women and children or it will perish.
Given PC, women who do not need to be rescued make life a lot easier for men and society as a whole. That’s why I want her to be a worthy heroine, a women of character, even if she is overwhelmed by circumstances. And the HR heroines like this are truly worthy and usually the hero is getting the better of the deal; even if he is nominally the rescuer, the heroine is often emotionally rescuing him. Now that’s a good story theme.
My comments about “abusive” Presents heroes need to be modified. I was referring to the first part of a Presents romance where the hero is often off-the-wall “Alpha-aggressive”. That happens. Then later in the book the hero becomes more civilized or we find out that he is really a wonderful guy who was being misunderstood or was actually justified in his earlier bad behavior.
Also by “abusive” I don’t mean criminal abuse; I mean critical, hurtful, or harsh actions. But then I am putting myself in place of the heroine hearing these comments – a man hearing this kind of talk is probably going to fight. If I could be monitored reading a Presents which featured a bad hero, I bet my chart would appear nothing like a female fan's chart! (Like I often say: the same romance is not the same book for a man as it is for a woman.)
Well, I have to get back to vicariously rescuing my current HR heroine.
Thanks,
Vince
“Romances are the emotional vitamins of the soul.” Vince
I agree...
about the Presents line
The few I have read have had (usually) wealthy and/or powerful men as the "hero".
The "heroine" (as the man sees it), wronged him in some way.
So....the man feels he has to either A) bully B) blacmail C) Manipulate or or D) all of the above, the woman. Some times it is physical mostly it is emotional.
He has to assert his "manhood" his "machismo". But somewhere along the way, he realizes he still loves her and wants her back.
And what makes me even angrier is that the woman falls for it. She falls for the blackmail and manipulation. Where is the pride? where is the backbone in these women?
Usually, the reason (as far as I have read), she left or "wronged" the man in the first place is because he was a bully. So why does she go back?
But I guess that goes on in real life...the man treats the woman like shit, but all she can say is "but I love him". "he'll change". "its better than being alone". "at least I have a man", etc.
Terri
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There's Research and then there's Research
Hi Merri:
My book is not going to be an academic book with rigorous research standards. I gave that idea up soon after starting my research. I am after information and insights. Mostly I just don’t want to get things wrong. The working title is: “A Random Walk Through Romance Land”. I’d like to capture the flavor of Mark Twain’s “Innocents Abroad,” that is, as a stranger in a strange land seeing things for the first time. I have enough material. Now I want to make sure that what I think is true is really true. I want romance fans to love the book and have a lot of laughs along the way. Some questions are just to add a little polish as I go along.
Thanks,
Vince
“Romances are the emotional vitamins of the soul.” Vince
but of course...
we all put up with things in ficticious characters, what we wouldnt put up with in real life.
The character Bruce Willis played in "Moonlighting" was great. He was sexy, fast talking, cute...but i wouldnt have him in my life.
Just like House. Just because I can see that he is a genious, and I can see the reason the is the way that he is, doesnt mean I would let him get away with it.
Terri
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